Wiktor: I would like to return to an issue that is not only within the competence of the ZTP. Shouldn't we return to a serious discussion about the subway in Kraków?
Łukasz: The subway is a bit of an expectation that will be a gamechanger for the city. The problem is, based on the analyses of the feasibility study, at the moment we are only talking about one line, which is not capable of solving city-wide problems. Analyses showed that if we launched a subway line between the east and west of the city, it would cover, if I remember correctly, up to 9% of trips in the city. Such a means of transportation, which would cost several billion zlotys from Nowa Huta to the western outskirts of the city, would be equal to a dozen streetcar lines.
I, as an engineer, am always convinced by the numbers. Previous discussions and analyses ended up mathematically confirming the inefficiency of a single subway line. The problem would also be its financing - external entities, whether EU funds or an EIB (European Investment Bank)-type bank taking a profit-benefit analysis would conclude that it is an inefficient venture. I, for one, believe that today there is no need to return to the discussion of the subway.
The opening of a discussion about the subway could occur when someone comes up with the idea of how to build two three lines at once. Then we create a certain system that could handle up to 30% of travel. Today this is a fantasy.
What we should do, and I think we're moving in that direction, is talk about using a premetro. This is the first line that is within financial reach. Technical work is being done and it is worth developing this system. We have the first tunnel, from which we can run other branches, towards Ruczaj or Płaszów. Building more branches connecting, for example, the area of Aleje Trzech Wieszczów with Kapelanka, we open up new possibilities. We increase the percentage of passengers who will benefit from this solution. This tunnel is the first step.
You can see the potential here. By connecting the premetro with rail and streetcars, we will respond to the fully understandable dissatisfaction of some residents with transportation. Kraków is a city where it is difficult to move around, especially by car, which we are urbanistically unsuited to. Efficient public transportation based on diverse means such as premetro, rail and streetcars will allow movement in similar or even shorter time on many sections, where today this dissatisfaction is most evident.
The changes will also affect the city card
© Public Transport Authority of Kraków
Wiktor: So a premetro is a better solution in your opinion than constantly talking about the subway.
Łukasz: Maybe not only in my opinion, but also in the opinion of the experts who are building the subway in Warsaw and conducting analysis around the world. They have answered the question of what best suits the needs of a city like Kraków.
Everything indicates that a strongly developed streetcar and premetro system does its job better, so let's think about how to increase its attractiveness by developing a new system. Let's consistently stick to this solution. There is no point in returning to the conversation about the subway in a situation where outside experts, not officials or politicians, have already answered the question.
Wiktor: The Public Transport Authority is one of the contractors of the "Climate Quarter" project, and on the other hand the city is an investor in big projects like the Lagiewnicka route or the Balice Route. Doesn't this conflict with the vision of a 15-minute city? Shouldn't we be moving toward this vision, which would probably be much cheaper than those big arteries that cut through the city?
Luke: There is no question here. We are still in a moment of transportation policy transformation. Routes like Lagiewnicka were planned a dozen years ago. We don't have consistency of sustainable transportation with heavily road investments. It's not that we shouldn't build roads at all. The Lagiewnicka route is mismatched and contains many sins of seeking solutions in a sizable investment blitz that doesn't work. She would probably suffice on a smaller scale, but this is a decision from a dozen years ago.
The most important thing now is to rethink its continuation, namely the zwierzynicka route. This road will also be built in a couple of years, but it must meet today's needs. Otherwise we will commit the same sins. I'm counting on you to confirm that this transportation policy is consistent and we have changed our approach in recent years. The urban layout of Kraków's functional downtown is completely different from that of other cities. We don't want to tear down the city to build roads, so we need to adapt the city to our choices. Hence there are ventures in raising the quality of urban transportation and bicycle infrastructure. It's important to give alternatives to those who want to choose the bicycle.
This inconsistency has its genesis in the past. Today, as we design transportation solutions, we try not to expand road infrastructure, such as KST IV on the Meissner section. If we are to make decisions, we are certainly moving in a better direction.
Wiktor: This leads me to another question. "Climate quarter" was announced over a year ago. ZTP is responsible in this project for the development of Wolnica Square. A year ago you presented a design for the square made by Gehl Architects. Will this vision be realized?
Łukasz: We are realizing it, although it got stuck at the time of conservation discussions. It's hard to fit into the preservationist expectations without interfering with the public space. The first issue is the amphitheater, which was proposed there by Gehl's studios, did not meet with the approval of the preservation service. We don't want to say it can't be done, because it's too easy. We are looking for alternative solutions that account for the most important thing, improving this space as a meeting place.
The final visualization of Gehl's office is less important to what we need. The most important question was what we need and what this Wolnica Square is. It is supposed to be a place to meet and stay. This year, we want to create more public seating areas that provide an opportunity to stop, by the Ethnographic Museum or the fountain. We are correcting the traffic organization on the traffic circle at Mostowa Street. We hope to pin this down by spring. These will be solutions either from Gehl's concept or similar. Instead of an amphitheater, it could be an installation of benches designed by an artist associated with the Ethnographic Museum. There won't be an amphitheater because there won't be permission for it, but these benches will fill a need for space.
The climate quarter is a larger project. We need to think about how to connect Berka-Joselewicza Street to the stop in Grzegórzki. I hope we will accelerate this work this year.
Wolnica Square concept (designed by Gehl Architects)
© Public Transportation Authority of Kraków
Wiktor: You mentioned benches and the reconstruction of the bridge street. Will the solutions proposed by Gehl Architects like planting trees or creating water retention be implemented?
Łukasz: We would very much like it to be implemented, but these projects must be carried out in parallel. Creating a water retention basin near Bridge Street is a construction project spread out over years. Benches and additional greenery will be created faster,.
Wiktor: Anew debut solution in Kraków will be a city bicycle rental service, where you rent a bicycle by paying a monthly subscription. Why did ZTP decide on such a formula and aren't you afraid of the limited possibilities of this solution? Once urban bicycle formula, Wavelo, didn't work out.
Łukasz: In Kraków we like to take on challenges, which is why the first urban bike rental service in Poland was established in our city, with all its pros and cons. Looking at economic estimates, a decision was made in the middle of the previous decade to give the system as a concession. Such a model worked out for the Wavelo system. The company pulled out for another reason - corporate decisions and acquisitions. In addition, there came the pandemic, which also changed a lot.
Today the maintenance of a classic rental system is even tens of millions of zlotys a year. In some cities there was a surcharge of 50 zlotys per bicycle trip, so taxpayers are beginning to ask whether this is definitely a rational solution, and the abandonment of systems has begun, such as recently in Poznan.
We look globally that the public bicycle in its classic form is on the wane. It was a system that was supposed to encourage cycling and complement public transportation. We saw this in Wavelo, that we had reached a ceiling in the number of users. We said that if anything, we could create such a system for electric bicycles. Because of the cost, a polemic came out of this at the city council, and the project was eventually rejected.
We want to create a solution that does not exist in Poland, but is well accepted in countries such as the Netherlands. We hope that this program will pan out like Wavelo. We are keen to promote solutions such as electric bicycles - under this program you will be able to use it for a certain period of time (a few months) and see what an alternative it is to moving around the city. The barrier to an electric bicycle is the purchase price, so we say ok, try it with us, and then maybe you can invest yourself.
The classic bicycle is also a good solution, for example, for students who don't buy one for a semester, but rent one for thirty zloty a month. We will look at how such a system works in our country. It is much cheaper than maintaining a classic bicycle with stations. If it takes off, we will be right again just like with Wavelo.
The bicycle potential of Cracow is still developing
© Public Transport Authority of Kraków
Wiktor: We've already talked about the subway, pre-metro and crisis management. With bicycles, it's hard not to ask about the development of bicycle paths. In what direction should the path go?
Luke: Faster. We have been too slow in building bicycle infrastructure. We have created a list of the thirty most important investments that should be built more or less by 2025. The bicycle infrastructure simply needs to be expanded. This is the equivalent of one major road investment or the renovation of three to five streets. We want to create a system in which we only create new infrastructure in newly developed areas. This is not easy, because the bicycle is still treated as a recreational solution, not a viable alternative.
This is something you still have to break through socially. I hope we can accelerate this. We have created a good framework for cooperation with ZDMK, which is responsible for building this infrastructure. There are a lot of such investments, on November 29 avenues, the Vistula embankments or the streetcar line to Górka Narodowa, which is under construction.
I think this should be intensified and accelerated. We are an ideal city for cycling.
Wiktor: Ideal?
Łukasz: The area of Podgórze or Kurdwanow is made more difficult by the hills, which are quite a challenge for the average Kowalski, but the city in terms of distance is ideal for cycling. Getting from Bronowice Small to Market Square is a dozen minutes at most. We have bicycle counters that show that when proper bicycle infrastructure appears, people use it even in winter or rain. These are people who consciously choose to bike because of not wasting time or because they want to enjoy their time actively. This infrastructure simply has to be built.
This year will see the launch of a city bicycle operating on the basis of the city's sub-subscription
© Public Transport Authority of Kraków
Wiktor: So Kraków can be Copenhagen?
Łukasz: I don't know about Copenhagen, because it's a flat city like Wroclaw. For that it's a coastal city with strong winds, which is a barrier to cycling. Kraków, with a decent bicycle infrastructure, can account for as much as 15-20% of cycling's share of overall traffic. This is a great deal that benefits everyone. It's less driving, more comfortable travel by public transportation or lower maintenance costs. Bicycling should be considered second only to public transportation, not as a weekend recreation to go to Tyniec.
Wiktor: If you were to summarize everything we discussed today. What should be the top priorities in public transportation, and what are the biggest threats the ZTP faces?
Łukasz: Of the threats, it's the lack of adequate funding to organize transportation at the level we would like. It's not nice to limit the work and undercut the quality that residents want.
And as for the ZTP itself, we would like residents to feel that someone is taking care of them during their daily transportation. There is no perfect system where everything works perfectly. We would like passengers to feel that we are doing everything we can for them, and we will work on that.
Wiktor: Thank you for the interview.
