Public Architecture
For more articles on similar topics, see A&B issue 02/2024 - PUBLIC ARCHITECTURE,
from which we publish the article below. Download free e-issues of A&B and read more.
How to create architecture that takes into account the challenges of the future? How can buildings influence people's behavior? What are the specifics of transportation infrastructure design? Is the development of new technologies, especially artificial intelligence, more of an opportunity or a threat? How to successfully run a multidisciplinary studio with several hundred employees from dozens of countries around the world and operating simultaneously on several continents? Finally, which country serves the best breakfasts in the world? Bartosz Haduch discusses all this and much more with Ben van Berkel of {tag:pracownie}.
Bartosz Haduch: I'm very pleased that we have the opportunity to meet after years - the last time we saw each other was in 2004, when I had the pleasure of being hosted at your Amsterdam office. It was also exactly 20 years ago that the first interview with you appeared in A&B magazine.
Ben van Berkel: I'm very pleased to do so.
STH BNK by Beulah (2018-), Melbourne, Australia
© UNStudio / Beulah / Norm Li
Bartosz: Many of UNStudio's projects create the illusion of dynamism and fluidity through their shape, functional layout or structure. I'm referring to both macro-scale projects - urban plans, skyscrapers and sizable public buildings - and micro-scale projects - single-family homes, temporary pavilions and even industrial design. Some of them may even resemble "forms stopped in motion." One of your books is even titled "Move" [a monograph co-written with Caroline Bos and published in 1999 by Goose Press, it consists of three parts: "Imagination", "Techniques" and "Effects". - Editor's note]. So how can architecture stimulate human movement and behavior?
Ben:I've always been interested in how architecture can stimulate or define the direction of people's movement and orientation. It's interesting that you can plan a building in such a way that it encourages people to calm down, slow down, stop in a particular place, or, on the contrary, to move faster or, in general, be active. Maybe this came from my time studying Baroque architecture in the Italian city of Lecce [Ben van Berkel also wrote a short guide to this vacation resort - ed. note]. It's a beautiful place where you can come across historical boundary columns indicating that an area belongs to a particular group or family. Ever since I can remember, I've been intrigued by how the intersections of thoroughfares, corridors or staircases can inspire people to move in a certain direction and can themselves be designed in a unique way.
Mercedes-Benz Museum (2001-2006), Stuttgart, Germany
Photo credit: Eva Bloem
Bartosz: Like the elevators in the monumental lobby of the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart, which can be considered autonomous works of applied art.
Ben:Exactly. That's another interesting effect that can be achieved by designing even the smallest technical elements. We called the elevators at the Mercedes-Benz Museum time machines - inside them you can see projections about automotive history, as if on a timeline: going back to the past or looking forward to the future. So architecture can stimulate not only dynamics and movement, but also has the chance to create overall unique experiences. I've always been fascinated by how space can have a psychological effect on people - when they move, sit down, climb stairs or meet in specific places - so as to help build a kind of bond or social interaction. I derived some ideas from the organization of English gardens. For example, the use of curving paths or plant compositions in these landscaping arrangements gives the impression of continuity and "infinity" of space. Besides, I have always believed in non-linear expression. Architecture should first and foremost provide experiences and a pretext for encounter. After all, it's not just about physical movement per se - after all, even when we sit in apparent stillness, our mind is still working, producing thoughts, plans or flashbacks.
Interiors of the central railroad station (1999-2015), Arnhem, Netherlands
Photo credit: Hufton + Crow
Bartosz: In numerous publications and interviews, you have mentioned the importance of time in constructing the experience of architecture. With this comes another question. UNStudio's website states that the studio's ambition is to create future-proof buildings - "future-proof architecture." What impact does the lapse of time between the creation of an architectural concept and its full implementation have on your projects? How up-to-date and relevant can solutions from a decade or two ago be today? As an example, I will cite the design of the Arnhem transport hub, which took many years to complete, and the various parts of the complex were commissioned in stages. So what is the significance of time in architecture?
Ben:I have long been interested in demographic analysis. In the case of the Arnhem complex, I wondered how the operation of the station and transfer station could be improved, especially when they are used by an insufficient number of users. I call it clockwise planning - the idea is to ensure the vitality of the place in the morning, afternoon, evening and even partly at night. Nowadays, train stations, at least in Europe, are often quite dark and isolated from their surroundings - they have become a kind of backwater for cities, instead of being a catalyst for various activities. Our ambition in Arnhem was to bring life into the space in and around the station itself - the idea was to create a multifunctional transportation hub that operates 24 hours a day. In the initial phase, the railroads were not fully convinced by our idea of integrating different forms of transportation in one place, but when we showed them the data - for example, the higher number of people transferring from one bus to another than passengers on the trains themselves - it gave them food for thought, especially since they were planning a sizable commercial zone within the station. This is how the project of a sizable transportation complex integrated under one roof began to emerge, which is perhaps even more important given the maritime, humid climate of the Netherlands. In this type of space, where life pulsates and there is no shortage of various services or attractions, a passenger can feel safe at any time of the day or night. Another important element of this transformation was to intensify the functional program around the station itself by adding new facilities: offices, residential buildings, dormitories, a theater or a cinema. And all this to encourage a variety of users to use this space, including in the evenings. Returning to the question of the resilience of this complex to the challenges of the future - we tried to particularly emphasize the aspects of flexibility and the possibility of re-adaptation of individual parts.
Interiors of the central railroad station (1999-2015), Arnhem, the Netherlands
Photo: Hufton + Crow
Bartosz: I remember this project very well from the days of visualization or the first press publications. The facility, after many years of work, was inaugurated in 2015. Did the result bring any surprises, or perhaps disappointments? Would you change anything in this project today, and if so, what? I'm curious what emotions accompanied you as you watched the realization of this vision more than fifteen years after the first sketches?
Ben:I was extremely pleased. But I must also emphasize that I was lucky with the collaborators, especially the lead architect and the site director. Initially, we considered concrete as the main building block of the project. In the end, due to time, complications and cost, we opted for steel, and it was a good choice. All in all, it was a beautiful experience. We worked like shipbuilders, watching as prefabricated elements prepared in advance were delivered to the site. The whole thing was assembled in just eight months. So the station was built in a very short time, even though the entire planning process took well over a decade. Could anything have been done better? If concrete had been used, the whole thing would probably have had to be more massive. I'm rather a person who tries not to over-analyze post facto, after a particular building has already been put into use.
Bartosz: I understand, of course.
Ben:I would also add that in architecture I am interested in detail. I would even say that I am obsessed with the best possible detail. But at the end of the day, the overall effective functioning of a project is more important.
Hardt Hyperloop transportation project (2018-), Netherlands.
© UNStudio / Hardt Hyperloop / Plompmozes
Bartosz: Still referring to the Arnhem station, I noticed that many of UNStudio's projects are related to infrastructure and transportation. Some I've had the pleasure of seeing, or actually traversing in person, such as the Erasmus Bridge in Rotterdam, the Piet Hein Tunnel in Amsterdam or the Prince Claus crossing in Utrecht, where I once lived. You are currently designing a terminal for the technology of the future - Hyperloop in the Netherlands. I'm curious about how architecture can make moving from place to place not only faster, but also a more interesting and enjoyable experience? How important is the question of adapting architecture to ever-changing technology?
Ben:I have always been interested in new technologies. Admittedly, it's just a tool, but certainly an extremely useful one. With it you can make architecture more attractive, improve communication or improve efficiency. For example, there has recently been a new Hyperloop technology, which is currently in advanced testing [the system funded by Elon Musk is supposed to combine the speed of air transport with the cheapness of road transport; the capsule with travelers is supposed to move in a special tube with reduced pressure - editor's note]. I probably won't live to see the time when the whole world will move in this way, but I'm convinced that this system will be successfully implemented someday. I like the fact that today we are thinking about completely new forms of ground transportation, competitive even with airplanes. But that doesn't mean I close my eyes to the dangers of technology development. We must all be attentive and aware in this regard. I once wrote a book called "Design Models" [a monograph co-written with Caroline Bos and published in 2006 by Thames & Hudson - ed. note], which is a kind of critique of parametric design. I believe that technology alone is no substitute for original, creative solutions (such as façade tectonics, the composition of structural elements or the selection and combination of materials). The lack of this correlation can even lead to disaster. Theoretically, it is possible today to build a building in any extravagant form, such as spaghetti. But this kind of architecture has never been my ambition, even though I enjoy using technology, exploring new horizons with it.
Hardt Hyperloop transportation project (2018-), Netherlands.
© UNStudio / Hardt Hyperloop / Plompmozes
Bartosz: This leads us to another question: is the development of new technologies, especially artificial intelligence, more of an opportunity or a threat, not only in the field of architecture?
Ben:I see it as an opportunity. I watch the development of this technology with interest and sympathy. But I am also critical of it. After all, it's not about building these objects in the form of spaghetti, for example. Artificial intelligence needs a guide - a teacher.
Bartosz: After all, it doesn't exist without adequate knowledge, for example, of architectural or art history. In addition, in order to achieve a specific result, artificial intelligence also needs the right underlying data, that is, the de facto real intelligence of someone who controls it.
Ben:Of course, we only get the right result when we ask it a specific, precise command.
STH BNK by Beulah (2018-), Melbourne, Australia
© UNStudio / Beulah / Norm Li
Bartosz: I would like to ask now about the global perspective. UNStudio has a portfolio of projects scattered around the world and offices in Europe, the United States, Asia or Australia - you recently won a competition for the STH BNK skyscrapers in Melbourne, which can be considered a contemporary interpretation of the mythical gardens of Semiramis. How do you manage to respond to the peculiarities of the local context while maintaining a certain uniformity and stylistic consistency?
Ben:We firmly believe in sharing knowledge. We are creating a kind of internal library of solutions. This kind of systematization in design certainly helps, especially with regard to sustainability issues. In addition, those running our satellite offices are generally employees who have been with us for years, and are therefore deeply familiar with our work culture, our DNA. Finally, there remains the issue of continuous contact and data flow between all our offices, made easier and faster by developing technologies.
Metro station network (2012-2019), Doha, Qatar
Photo: Hufton + Crow
Bartosz: I have the impression that you sometimes make creative reinterpretations of local motifs. I'm thinking, for example, of the metro station system in Qatar's capital Doha.
Ben: This is a very good example of systemic design. Specifically for the project in Doha, we developed a kind of book - a guidebook, or maybe even an instruction manual. As a result, we were able to create three or four typologies within a network of thirty-seven stations and three metro lines. This study was a great help, especially for contractors. With them in mind, we also made many mock-up models, mainly with regard to details. Even in such a rational and logical design as a subway station system, we were able to fit some added value. This kind of design also allows us to easily further develop our system if the need arises in the future.
Raffles City Hangzhou (2008-2017), Hangzhou, China
Photo credit: Hufton + Crow
Bartosz: It's a very interesting combination of complex forms and at the same time modular design based on prefabricated elements and local ornamentation. The next question is specifically about projects in the Middle and Far East. Your spectacular skyscraper visions have been or are being built in China (Raffles City Hangzhou), the United Arab Emirates (Wasl Tower) or Singapore (The Scotts Tower and Ardmore Residence). These are often impressive visions of grand scale, how different from the European context. How would you assess these Asian experiences?
Ben:I learned a great deal with these projects, including about certain cultural codes. There were also some surprises. A lot of people think that China is not particularly interested in sustainability issues, yet there I encountered a very progressive approach to the subject. In this distant context, sometimes more radical and even experimental solutions can be allowed. What I really liked about China was the omnipresent thirst for knowledge. In Europe - for example, in the Netherlands, Germany or France - everything has already been codified in its own way, and it's hard to do novel experiments here. In every location where we work, we try to push the boundaries a bit, on many different levels, not only the architectural one (in terms of details or materials), but also the social, environmental or health ones. I have devoted a particularly long time to the latter issue. How can buildings affect a person's physical or mental health? Interestingly, this question is particularly relevant in the American context. Recently we have been working on a number of renovations where the issues of clean air, adequate acoustics or sufficient daylight take on particular importance.
Ardmore Residence (2006-2013), Singapore
Photo: Ivan Baan
Bartosz: You have taught at many universities scattered around the world. You are currently a visiting professor at the prestigious Harvard University. Do you think that the experiences of recent years - the pandemic, lockdown and communication through remote communication tools, as well as the rapid development of artificial intelligence - have permanently changed the way architecture is taught?
Ben:Oh yes, my students are very involved in these issues. I always tell them to be attentive, to use these new tools in accordance with the principles of architecture, in combination with experiencing architecture. Classic rules and centuries of history should not be forgotten. Blindly using new technologies can involve many mistakes. I myself always try to combine the new with the old, while I leave a lot of freedom to the students, so that they can come up with new ideas of their own. I am not the type of person who imposes the only right vision. True talent can only be stimulated and motivated. Students should therefore be given the right conditions to develop and present their own visions.
Dom Möbius (1993-1998), Het Gooi, Netherlands
Photo: Eva Bloem
Bartosz: You have several single-family house projects in your portfolio. I still remember from the days of the publication of Mark Magazine, with which I worked for many years, your realization of the NM villa in upstate New York. It's one of my favorite UNStudio projects and probably the next stage of the formal evolution begun in your earlier realization, the Möbius House. Unfortunately, this New York house was consumed by fire and today can only be admired in beautiful photographs by Christian Richters. Could you tell a little more about this project and its future fate? If the opportunity to rebuild this building arose, would you recreate it in the same form or would you prefer to design everything from scratch?
Ben:If it were up to me, I would probably try to incorporate more sustainability issues into the design. Who knows, maybe we would have given the villa a slightly more streamlined form. It was a small weekend house, but I remember that the clients were very happy with it. Unfortunately, not everything went according to plan. For me, this is one of the key projects that left its mark on the entire field of architecture. It was, moreover, copied with varying degrees of success. Sometimes I regret that I can no longer show live the solutions used in it, such as a certain softening and deformation of the scheme of the classic box. But this is also something to be proud of. This house was a kind of prototype, and although it doesn't exist anymore, in a sense it continues in many other projects (including my own).
Möbius House (1993-1998), Het Gooi, the Netherlands
Photo: Eva Bloem
Bartosz: You create extremely diverse projects: from large master plans or skyscraper concepts to small industrial design objects (such as footwear for United Nude, kitchen fixtures for Alessi or Seating Stones sofas and armchairs for Knoll). In one of your books, you refer to architects as "fashion designers of the future." I'm curious, do you test and use these items in your home or office? And is there anything else you would like to micro-design?
Ben:I've always been interested in tactility in design. Of course, we are using computers more and more nowadays, many processes have been automated, but I still like to work with my own hands. That's probably why I also like fashion and art. To this day I still happen to paint pictures. This is because you can't lose direct contact with colors, materials or composition. Computer design creates a kind of distance between the creator and his work. So it is certainly worth working directly with my own hands as well, which is why I try to sketch a lot, which is also why I like to do small forms of industrial design. In the case of design, after a few months, as a rule, the object is ready, a painting can be painted even faster. And architecture, well, it takes time.
The Bridge skyscraper (2019-), Warsaw, Poland
© UNStudio
Bartosz: I can't help but ask about the Polish theme. You recently designed The Bridge skyscraper in Warsaw, which has a chance to become one of the most elegant high-rise buildings in the skyline of the Polish capital. Please tell us about this facility. When can we expect its inauguration?
Ben:If everything goes according to plan, the building should be ready in 2025. The entrance area is particularly important in this project. We used an interesting kind of light play here. I like to say sometimes that this is a building with a thousand facades. It certainly has a chance to become an object of symbolic significance, but at the same time it is deeply embedded in the local context. I would like to further emphasize here that thanks to fruitful cooperation with the investor, we were able to apply the latest solutions for sustainable development. I'm looking forward to the inauguration of this building, especially since I have very good memories of Poland. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've had breakfasts as good anywhere else in the world.
Bartosz: I am also looking forward to the opening of this building, perhaps it will be a good excuse for another meeting. Thank you for the interview.
Ben:Thank you, too, and see you in Warsaw!
