Katarzyna: Yes, on this issue the need to break down cultural barriers due to our history.
Joanna: More arguments are emerging. When putting up a prefabricated building, we are talking about assembly, not construction. Assembling prefabricated elements is much less disruptive to the environment than conducting traditional construction. The investment can be better certified, because prefabricated production is more sterile. There are also fewer accidents. It seems to me that it would be better if local governments joined the process, requiring, for example, lower external costs of investment or preservation of city-forming elements - open settlements with active partners. We should strive to find points of synergy in every investment, because this creates the city. I think it's necessary to talk about these good projects as often as we stigmatize pat-developers.
Skanska representatives receive the "Building without Barriers" certificate awarded for the first residential building (2019)
© Skanska
Catherine: What else is such a good example?
Joanna: Skanska has designed the first so-called accessible apartments, which can be easily adapted for people with disabilities or the elderly with limited mobility. In these apartments, the partition wall between the bathroom and the bedroom can be easily moved so that a person in a wheelchair can fit in the shower. The entrances not only to the building, but also to the apartments are wider - to accommodate a wheelchair. This is a successful example of the developer's cooperation with the Integration Foundation.
Catherine: You write about this in more detail in your book "Beyond Ownership".
Joanna: Yes, there are examples there that show that the market is in the vanguard. Social expectations are also changing. Each successive generation that enters adulthood is becoming more climate-conscious. They are asking not only what the product is, but also how it was created and produced.
Katarzyna: In what other ways do you understand developer responsibility?
Joanna: I understand responsibility as recognizing oneself as part of the ecosystem - both the ecosystem of the city, which is a complex organism that sometimes takes hundreds of years to form, and in which by putting up a building we create its fabric, and the large ecosystem, the planet. A good example of developers' commitment to changing design thinking is New Żerniki. In this case, I praise Mayor Dutkiewicz, who agreed to the experimental neighborhood design proposed by Zbyszek Maćkow with a group of architects. The role of the city was to prepare the infrastructure - probably the first time before the buildings appeared, there were ready streets and streetlights. Something that is standard in the West, and which we are just learning in Poland. The first stage was built by the hands of developers. And the first company that got involved despite the risks, because the project was innovative, was Archicom, whose owners at the time were a married couple, Dorota Jarodzka-Srodka and Kazimierz Srodka. The building's design had solar panels on the roofs and facades, a gym where pedaling a bicycle could power the common spaces, and an herb garden. These elements were publicly accessible. The project got off the ground in 2014, when there were no programs to support accessible rental housing, and the institutional market didn't exist - hence the developer dominance. But Nowe Żerniki is evolving with the times. The second phase of construction saw the creation of an intergenerational TBS, and now - more apartments for rent. In this experiment, it was the market, or the light of a pair of investors, architects, who are the founders of Archicom, who were partners for the city. I think that being part of an environment that cares about the future of cities, we should promote such positive examples.
Nowe Żerniki - the spaces between the buildings form a network of interconnected squares with different development and functions.
Photo: Maciej Lulko
Katarzyna: Do you think we should also expect responsibility from developers?
Joanna: I think we do. Please see - a lot of vegan products have appeared in stores. I don't think the CEOs of market chains or fuel chains are vegans by conviction. They know that customers are demanding such offerings and stores are expanding them, which can also, of course, warm up their image or gain new customers. I have no doubt that companies need to make money and account for their financial gains. That's why as long as most of the investments are made by private investors and not local governments, we are talking to developers.
Katarzyna: What is your ideal picture of the housing market?
Joanna: In my dream scenario, local governments take housing policy seriously. They develop standards, show by their example how it should be. They offer accessible housing cheaper than in the developer market. The result would be that an apartment for 8-12 thousand zlotys per meter prepared for sale could look no worse than one that would be rented for 12-20 zlotys per meter per month. For this to happen, we need ambitious local governments that want to be in the vanguard. Like in Chrzanów, where Mayor Robert Maciaszek is thinking comprehensively - while building a special technological (clean-tech) zone, he is also thinking about new housing, including for affordable rent. A project for more than two hundred apartments near the train station is currently being prepared. The local government has applied to the European Investment Bank for support in financing the expertise, which is being developed by Ernst&Young, with Aleksandra Wasilkowska as the lead architect. Included in the project are apartments for seniors and for rent in medium, TBS-style housing. Urban greenhouses are also planned. It will be a gem. It may turn out that thirty-six-thousand-strong Chrzanów is more successful in raising funds than two-million-strong Warsaw! I believe that the best should be praised. Promote the leaders and leaders of change who are in local governments, in social movements or among developers. We need to sit down together to talk, because this is our common future.
Katarzyna: In your book "Beyond Ownership" you describe the work on the Housing Plus program. One example is the New Jeziorek project, which unfortunately did not work out. How do you assess what happened?
Joanna: I believe that the capital's City Hall ignored this project, which had the potential to meet the housing needs of many people. It is possible that going beyond political divisions proved too difficult. It was known that without cooperation this settlement would not be built. I participated in this project, as BGKN we made a competition, the jury of which also included representatives and representatives of the local government, so that the city could veto projects. We hoped that by engaging in the competition, the city would engage in dialogue and seek constructive solutions. Teams with an ever-increasing number of members gathered, whose goal, unfortunately, was not for the investment to come to fruition. In turn, the then management of BGKN (then PFRN) did not want to implement the project using the "salami" method, i.e. building up successive sections of the plot, WZ-ka from WZ-ka. The land was bought because the first development conditions with a building permit had been issued. And it was possible to put up building after building, but then again an unlivable space would have been created on the border of Warsaw, which would have further jammed Pulawska Street. I very much regret that it was not possible to lead a constructive dialogue for this investment. Maybe the neighborhood will be built in a better version someday, when it will be possible to build Housing Plus across the divide. This is a place for a neighborhood of the future, a model example of a satellite settlement with good rail transportation.
Publicly accessible herb gardens in the New Żerniki estate in Wroclaw
Photo: Joanna Erbel
Katarzyna: What (or perhaps who) is currently developing residential architecture in Poland?
Joanna: I think it's the dreams and ambitions that appear in different places. Sometimes it's architects (and we have very good architects and female architects) who come and propose more progressive solutions to investors. Sometimes it is someone on the board of directors of real estate developers, as in the case of BKG Real Estate. The board of directors created by people from other industries said that since they were not familiar with contemporary residential architecture, they wanted to learn from the outside. That's how the model home competition was created. Also very important is the role of trade magazines, which gather the knowledge of specialists or activists - here I have high hopes for PLGBC's activities. We should think about change as a joint process and set ourselves up for constructive solutions. In Krakow now, the hot topic is the Wesoła district. The goal is not to block investment, but to revitalize a beautiful part of the city, a better quality of life. An interesting framework is provided by David Sim in his book "The Kind City," he writes that it is mutual kindness and a sense of shared responsibility for the city that should guide us in the search for progressive compromises.
Catherine: How do you envision the near future in this area?
Joanna: I would like to see a space for dialogue between three parties: local governments, private entities (developers or business representatives) and the social side. In every area. I would like us to talk together about the city and consider, for example, whether the extra floors of the superstructure are worth it for a developer to plan a seniors' club on the first floor. Cities need residents, our energy, taxes and commitment. And they need us to be happy, because a happy voter is a loyal voter. Developer investments co-create the fabric of the city, and it is worth doing everything to make them the best they can be. It is really possible to talk to investors.
Catherine: Thank you for the interview.
interviewed by: Katarzyna Mikulska
Joanna Erbel - sociologist, urban activist, housing expert. Founder of the Blisko Foundation dedicated to supporting local activism and creating knowledge on housing innovation. She coordinated the preparation of the housing policy and the Housing2030 program for the city of Warsaw. From 2017 to 2020, she was in charge of the topic of housing innovation at PFR Real Estate. She is a member of the expert group of the Rental Market Laboratory and CoopTech Hub, the first cooperative technology center in Poland. Author of the books "Beyond Ownership. Toward a successful housing policy" (2020) and "Leaning into the future. How to change the world for the better" (2022). She is an associate of the A/Type Foundation, which works on neurodiversity.
