The interview comes from A&B issue 7-8|24
One of the greatest honors in Polish architecture is the Honorary Award of the Society of Architects, which has been awarded since 1966. In a series in the pages of A&B about the professional path, the activities of SARP and current events from the world of architecture, Wojciech Fudala talks to the winners and laureates of this award. This time his interlocutor is Professor Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, who received the SARP Honorary Award in 1995.
Konrad KUCZA-KUCZYÑSKI - Professor. Graduate of the Faculty of Architecture at the Warsaw University of Technology (1964), academic teacher since 1980, dean of the Faculty of Architecture at the Warsaw University of Technology (1990-1994), member of the Primate's Council / Warsaw Church Building Commission (1975-2018). Author of many projects and realizations of residential buildings, public buildings, schools of higher education, sacred buildings, including the Hall of Congregations at Jasna Gora, churches in Warsaw, Lomza, Siedlce and Milanowek. Winner of nearly 40 awards and prizes in architectural and urban planning competitions. Author of many books, including: "The Fourth Dimension of City Architecture", "New Churches in Poland", "Zawód-architekt, o etyce zawodowej i moralności architektury", "The Visible of the Invisible - New Warsaw Churches", "Creators and Works of the Warsaw School of Architecture 1915-2015", "Houses of the World", "Blue and Black, a Painted Borderland Story" and about 240 publications. He is a recipient of the Honorary Award of SARP, the Officer's Cross of the Order of Polonia Restituta and the Brother Albert Award.
Wojciech Fudala:The end of your studies was in 1964, a period of deep communist Poland. What were your beginnings in the profession like?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: Luckily, unlike many other architects of that period, I managed to avoid the typical path of working in state design offices at the time. In 1964 I completed my diploma under Bohdan Pniewski, as the first student from my yearbook. My subject was the city hall on Teatralny Square, today the Jablonowski Palace, rebuilt in 1997, stands there. It was a very controversial and widely discussed topic in the 1960s, and a two-hour discussion heated up during my defense. Almost an argument between architects, urban planners and architectural historians. Each of them had their own opinions on what should actually be done with the frontage of Theater Square, which was destroyed during the war.
A year and a half after my diploma I went to Paris, where I had the opportunity to do an internship in the system of Western design offices. A year later, I returned to Poland - richer in new experiences, as well as a car, which turned out to be quite a convenience, both in professional and family life. Having had experience from the West, I could no longer imagine working in the state design offices of the time, especially amid the rigors that prevailed there.
Main Library of the University of Nicolaus Copernicus University, Torun - design: Witold Benedek, author cooperation: Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, construction: J. Teliga, 1966-1973
Illustrations courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
As luck would have it, Witold Benedek, later to become a professor, offered me then to act as part of a studio at the Faculty of Architecture of the Warsaw University of Technology, which was working on the design of the campus of the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Toruń. I was given the opportunity to design the Main Library, for one and a half million books, including many valuable old prints. Benedek threw me in at the deep end. During my scholarship in Paris, I always had some sort of supervisor over me. Here I had to design everything: from skylights over the upper reading rooms, to movable partition wall elements, to library furniture and many other unusual things. It was a hard science for six years, from design to implementation.
Wojciech Fudala:What were your next projects?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: After the library was realized and I received my design license, I got a stand-alone project for the UMK Radioastronomy Center, on a rural plot of land near Toruń. At the time, I was just after my first trip to Scandinavia, which I still consider a benchmark for the quality of modern architecture. I was inspired by this architecture and designed the Radioastronomy Center in the atmosphere of a rural habitat: white silicate brick, clinker and wooden elements. The brooch tying the whole establishment together was the largest radio telescope in Poland, which can already be seen from the entrance hall.
Radio astronomy center of the Nicolaus Copernicus University, Piwnice near Toruń - design: Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, author cooperation: Jacek Nalewajski (1970-1974); design of the second stage: Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski (1982)
Illustrations courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Another theme I also realized in Toruń. It was the youth club of the Nicolaus Copernicus University, later the cult Od Nowa. Here I experimented with new materials, such as laminated wood, whose factory was located nearby, in Cierpice, vitrolite glass skylights and pseudo-architectural concrete, materials that were innovative to me.
That was the end of the period I describe as the Toronto episode. For some time I was looking for an idea of what to do next. Then there was a proposal from the Chief Architect of Warsaw, who appointed me Chief Area Designer. This was a function that existed in all large cities, involving specific architects taking care of some larger urban complexes. I was assigned the oldest area of the Main Area of the Warsaw University of Technology. At the time, we built the Polytechnic Library into the main building of the university at Polytechnic Square. I also made a square in front of the entrance to the main building. I removed wild parking lots in favor of isolating the place from the nuisance of the traffic junction and planted twelve Caucasian linden trees. Many people protested against this solution, but not the students, and I was convinced that it was correct.
The polytechnic episode was, in a way, a search for new topics for me. I began to draw visions for the development of Polytechnic in the direction of integration with Downtown South. This was written into the district's plans, which later helped in the author's realizations of housing for university employees.
Wojciech Fudala:At that time there were local zoning plans in place?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: They were not the kind of local plans we know today. In the 1970s there were design studios for individual districts, they solved visions of certain spatial fragments of the city. Later this was taken over by the Warsaw Development Planning Office. I think this was a very wise tendency that would be worth returning to in today's realities.
Wojciech Fudala:Today you are most associated with sacred architecture. Where did your interest in such subjects come from?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: In a way, I owe it to coincidence. While I was still a student, I found myself among people who, because of their underground activities in the Home Army and the Uprising, were imprisoned in the Rakowiecka prison. The Prior of Jasna Gora also found himself there. At that time they promised themselves that if they were released, they would take care of the monastery in Czestochowa. Among those in this circle was Tadeusz Bohdan Zielinski. They came out of prison in the 1950s, and when they began to realize their resolve, they also enlisted me to take care of Jasna Góra. My most important realization in Czestochowa was the Hall of Congregations under the Jasna Gora ramparts.
Fr. Kordecki Hall of Congregations, Jasna Góra, Czestochowa - designed by Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, Andrzej Miklaszewski, Piotr Kudelski, 1993-1996
Illustrations courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:Prof. Ewa Kurylowicz recounted that a turning point for her work was the 1970s, because that's when the possibility of private commissions first appeared. These were precisely the projects of churches.
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: Yes, in the 1970s we had Gierek's breakthrough. After five years of his rule - in response to growing economic troubles - the first approvals for the construction of churches began to be issued. Thanks to the fact that I had already been involved in sacred architecture, I became a member of the Diocesan Council for the Construction of Warsaw Churches under the curatorship of Cardinal Stefan Wyszynski. At that time I was asked, among other things, to design the Church of the Conversion of St. Paul the Apostle. Conversion of St. Paul the Apostle in Grochow. This was my first major church, and at the same time a turning point in my design activity. At that time I invited a friend from my year, Andrzej Miklaszewski, to join me. Since then we designed churches together for many years, and in the late 1980s and early 1990s we established one of the first authorial architecture studios in Warsaw. In the design of the church in Grochow we focused on brick architecture, which contrasted with the apartment blocks next door.
Church of the Conversion of St. Paul the Apostle, Warsaw - design: Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, Andrzej Miklaszewski, construction: Bogdan Osinski, 1977-1985
Illustrations provided courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:What are the differences between church design and other types of buildings?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: I think there are two themes in architecture that are different from all others: the single-family home and the architecture of the sacred, whether it is a small chapel or a large church. To paraphrase the words of Nobel Prize winner Olga Tokarczuk, they require a very sensitive approach to the subject. Unlike structures such as an office building or a commercial building, with the design of a single-family house and a church comes the obligation to give the architecture meaning. The sacred function itself is quite simple to design, if we compare it, for example, to the library I designed earlier. However, it requires knowledge of symbolism, which unfortunately many architects designing churches, as well as commissioning clergy, are unaware of. With sacred projects, there is often a conflict between the architect and the commissioning party regarding how deeply we should go into symbolism and meaningful elements. And this is essential.
The chapel of St. Our Lady of Jazłowiecka, Szymanów - designed by Konrad Kucza-Kuczyński, Andrzej Miklaszewski, 1999-2003
Illustrations courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:Can a non-believing architect design a good sacred space?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: I think so, although in the case of sacred architecture, faith certainly helps. I knew Stanislaw Niemczyk well, who was a man of deep faith and had an excellent theological background. An interesting case is Marek Budzynski, who was religiously indifferent up to a certain point. Later, when he designed the excellent Church of the Ascension in Ursynów, he became a man of faith. I think faith and religious activity help when designing the sacred, but are not a necessary element. I, above all, believe in a good and efficient architect.
Wojciech Fudala:Your work also includes foreign projects, such as the church in Malmö. This probably required adaptation to the regulations there. Have you noticed any elements of the legislation there that could be transferred to us?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: When we apply for a building permit in our country, the first thing the official checks is whether there is the right number of stamps. Then - whether the project complies with the often lousy provisions of the local plan or development conditions. And that's where the checking of the project ends. Working abroad, I met with very precise guidelines. For example, in our local plans one encounters a provision that the roof is to have a pitch of 30 to 45 degrees. Nowhere in the world is there such a thing. In the Tyrol it's 25 degrees, in Provence I think it's 23 degrees, and no one dares change that. However, this doesn't prevent people from doing excellent architecture. I think that in terms of construction law and local plans in Poland, their changes should start from scratch. Civilized countries of Europe are a model.
Church of Our Lady in the Rose Garden of the Oblates, Malmö, Sweden - designed by Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, Andrzej Miklaszewski, rob. Sven Samuelson, 1986-1988
Illustrations provided courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:You mentioned that your promoter was Bohdan Pniewski, that is, the founder of the Association of Polish Architects.
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: Yes, this was in the 1920s. The first founding meetings were held in his apartment, not yet in the iconic villa on Skarpa.
Wojciech Fudala:You decided in 2020 to unsubscribe from SARP. Where did this decision come from? In your opinion, do the current actions of the Association's authorities deviate from Pniewski's vision?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: I have been active in SARP since I graduated. I received the SARP Honorary Award, I was a competition judge, also a member of the board of the Warsaw Branch and the Main Branch. The competitions in which I was chairman of the jury resulted in such projects as the Przełomy Dialogue Center in Szczecin, MOCAK in Krakow, the Katyn Museum and the Museum of the Polish Army, now and History, in Warsaw, which is being completed.
Over the past few years, however, I have observed a whole host of mistakes in Warsaw's space, to which SARP has been completely unresponsive. Take Pilsudski Square. The best architects, our professors Pniewski, Gutt, spent years doing studies and designs for this space. Suddenly, the political authorities decided to move the not inconsiderable monument to Jerzy Kalina from its intimate place on Krakowskie Przedmieście, to Pilsudski Square, thus blocking its development. Later came the Ministry of Culture-supported nightmarish project to expand Pawiak or the triumphal arches on the Vistula River. SARP watched all this in silence, even though it has care for space and responding to symptoms of disrespect for spatial order written into its charter.
Wojciech Fudala:The same thing is happening in my city of Katowice. The Directorate of the Silesian Park wants to demolish the historic Parkowa restaurant (designed by Zbigniew Rzepecki, 1962), which is an integral part of the park's main axis, and SARP Katowice is completely unresponsive. The branch's board of directors claims that it doesn't pay to speak out on the matter, because the Silesian Park may, after all, commission some kind of competition for the Association in the near future.
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: So you confirm my doubts. For the past few terms, no voice in the debate about urban space has been heard from the SARP side. I wrote letters to the Association of Polish Architects and the Society of Polish Urban Planners on these issues, drawing attention to the evils for space. Only the TUP spoke up, and there was complete silence from the SARP side.
During the communist era, when something bad was happening in space, Chairman Henryk Buszko and his successors always spoke up. I remember how Stanislaw Jankowski and I protested against the construction of the nightmarish Warsaw Uprising monument on Constitution Square, because that was our social duty.
That 's why at some point I said "enough" and signed out. I believe that the Honorary Award of SARP, which I got in 1995, was an award from a completely different Association than the one we have now.
Museum of the Warsaw Uprising, Bielanska Street - competition, first prize realization: Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski, Andrzej Miklaszewski, construction: Zbigniew Pawlowski, 1976
Illustrations courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:Shortly after you unsubscribed from SARP, "Arch" magazine, run by your daughter Agnieszka Bulanda, disappeared from the market.
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: This is true. One of the vice presidents, a very good, well-known architect, made the decision that "Arch" was unnecessary, and then the main board voted it down. In my opinion, "Arch" was a very valuable magazine and a great discussion platform. Under Agnieszka's editorship, it even went public, and it is a great pity that it is no longer on the market.
Wojciech Fudala:I guess today's times are quite difficult for architectural print magazines?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: Perhaps I have a certain distortion due to my age, but I am a strong supporter of printed architectural magazines. Today we have two parallel paths: print and internet. I myself publish my drawings on Facebook, and I've found that this is also a great platform for communication, but it shouldn't cancel out print. Architecture magazines and books are published and read all the time in the world.
Konrad Kucz-Kuczynski's drawings - Paris "66 from the series "Parisian Townhouses", 1965-66 and Venice, 2016
Illustrations provided courtesy of Konrad Kucz-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:How did you become an academic?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: I never thought about working at a university. As I mentioned, after graduation I was active in the studio at the Faculty of Architecture at the Warsaw University of Technology, so I was always around. Even then I was persuaded to work with students, but I had too harsh a view of some of the party people in charge of the institutes and refused.
When I was writing the book "The Fourth Dimension of City Architecture," Tadeusz Szafer persuaded me to do a doctorate. I defended it in 1981, simultaneously with the publication of the book, after which I was invited to co-found the Architecture Department of the Bialystok University of Technology, whose director at the time was Michal Gutt. Today this department is a major architectural university in the country. With my experience from Bialystok, in 1985 I went to the Faculty of Architecture at the Warsaw University of Technology, where, regardless of my formal retirement, I still teach today.
Wojciech Fudala:In 1990-1994 you even became the dean of this university. It was a period of political change, which many Warsaw architects remember because of the innovations that you managed to introduce into the educational program. How do you recall that time?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: It fell to me to restore the traditional structure. Following the model of the Academy of Fine Arts, I came up with the idea of introducing additionally the Studios, i.e. units in which academic degrees are not required, instead they are led by professional and practicing architects. I am not an expert on organizational matters, but it was such an important idea for me that I managed to push it through. It was a revolution, even today unprecedented in any other department. That structure still works. I also made quite a few curricular changes, and the most important were changes in the rules of the entrance exam, the first-year program and a new subject - ethics of the architectural profession.
Housing Colony "Oaza", Warsaw - designed by Konrad Kucza-Kuczyński, Andrzej Miklaszewski, Jan Kucza-Kuczyński, Marcin Krauze, Natalia Regulska, 1999-2001
Illustrations provided courtesy of Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:What should an architecture student take from this subject?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: Two things are the most important. First, ethics should be understood as professional responsibility. It is responsibility to the white paper, the computer screen, the client and fellow architects. The philosopher Władysław Stróżewski, in his excellent book "Dialectics of Creativity," writes that every creator should have a vision of his maximum to which he aspires. When I hand over a project, I ask myself whether I have reached my maximum possible, and I take responsibility for that.
The second important thing is the identity of architecture. Today, with difficulty, we are slowly catching up with European architecture, but we are losing identity issues in the process. I'm not even talking about office buildings anymore, which never had their own identity, but about ordinary houses. For part of the year I live in a house in Kazimierz. It is made in Kazimier limestone and has a shingled roof, which is a typical taste of Kazimierz. Paris also has its golden stone, by the way, the same limestone that is in Kazimierz. Warsaw, unfortunately, is losing its identity. It is even losing its colors. Although Constitution Square has the color of sandstone, which is a warm white, as a result of renovations, even Krakowskie Przedmieście is starting to appear a foreign chalky white. After all, this is not the color of Warsaw. In civilized countries this would be obvious, but in our country, unfortunately, it is not.
Wojciech Fudala:When you look back on your activities, what are you most proud of?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: I can't point unequivocally. I don't think I have any single outstanding work. I have realized about 50 objects. In addition, I have entered 50 competitions, 30 of which ended in awards or honorable mentions. I have 250 graduate students and almost 20 doctoral students behind me. Several of my graduates are already professors today. However, these are just numbers. When I received the SARP Honorary Award, the diploma said "the award was given for outstanding contributions to Polish architecture." So to answer your question, I would point to the totality of my work, i.e. design, academic and organizational activity, maybe drawing....
Konrad Kucz-Kuczynski's drawings - Alhambra, 1975 and San Gimignano, 2012
Illustrations provided courtesy of Konrad Kucz-Kuczynski
Wojciech Fudala:During your studies you were in contact with Pniewski and Lachert, and today you teach architecture students yourself. How would you compare that generation with today's?
Konrad Kucza-Kuczynski: Pniewski was a great architect, very well organized, as evidenced by the number of his projects both before and after the war. He was able to rotate in different political circles. Lachert, whom I met with in my third year of study, was also an interesting character. He could sit with a student for an hour on a proofreading assignment, because something just happened to interest him. Architect professors of that era did not look at their watch, although they ran their studios. They were idealistic people in the sense of their approach to architecture and their responsibility for education. Today I see much less of this ideology, although the students are just as capable....
Wojciech Fudala:Thank you for the interview.
interviewed: Wojciech Fudala
Illustrations provided courtesy of Konrad Kucz-Kuczynski.
