Sou Fujimoto
Anna: At what point and why did you decide to change offices? At first you worked for NOIZ Architects, then you moved to Sou Fujimoto's office. Was that your goal, or did the opportunity just present itself?
Piotr: I had discussions with Fujimoto's studio before, because I was anxious to work for them, but I decided to work for NOIZ Architects because I was very intrigued by them during the interview. All the time, however, I had a desire to learn more about Fujimoto's studio - and after a year at NOIZ, I got in touch with them again. After my application was accepted, I decided to move to them.
Anna: Did your colleagues at the NOIZ studio say goodbye to you? Since there was no culture of daily greeting and farewell there....
Piotr: I want to point out here again the peculiarities of NOIZ - due to the American education and the professional seniority of the boss, this studio is a kind of hybrid of Japan and the West. So despite everything, working with them was much more "open" than in traditional Japanese offices, as I know from friends. I could, for example, talk directly with the boss and he was interested in my opinion, argumentation - if it was strong enough, he was able to favor the idea presented. In contrast, in a traditional Japanese office, such an opportunity does not exist - I would not have a chance to talk to the boss, I could talk to my immediate superior, who would go to the person higher up in the hierarchy. And to say goodbye - the office did a little party!
Pachinko - a Japanese casino with slot machines
Photo: © Potr Pasierbinski
Anna: What does your work for Fujimoto look like? Has your dream to work for him not crashed into reality?
Piotr: I certainly have a certain lack of his presence in the office and contact with architects. Since he has a second office in Paris and the projects are spread all over the world, he is often not there. However, I was very positively surprised by the atmosphere - this is a result of the composition of the team: more than half of the people in the Tokyo office are foreigners, and a total of fifty people work here. We are divided into teams of five people, for large topics the teams merge.
Anna: What attitude do your Japanese office colleagues have toward you and foreigners?
Piotr: In the beginning it was simply neutral. When they saw that I work as much as they do, that I don't count on a concessionary tariff, I managed to win their respect and appreciation. The Japanese are used to foreigners having different standards and attitude to work.
Anna: Let's go back to Fujimoto. What was the most interesting project you worked on for him? You've been working for him for five months.
Peter: We worked on a very interesting project in Singapore - a museum dedicated to the founding fathers of Singapore. This was my second project in this office. In addition to the person of the master, there are extremely interesting people from all over the world. The opportunity to learn from colleagues is a huge advantage of staying here, everyone is very helpful, open and supportive of each other.
Anna: How does the knowledge and professional foundations acquired during your - already extremely varied - studies, which you officially graduated from very recently, three years ago, compare to your work experience? Did the school give you a basis for thinking about architecture, but have your ways of seeing, creating and thinking completely changed? Were you prepared for the realities of working as an architect?
Piotr: Unfortunately, my personal opinion of the Polish education system is negative. The main objection is that Polish (and not only) school does not teach thinking, too much emphasis is placed on form, which can often be intuitive and random, while too little on the whole process, on arriving at this form, the logical sequence, the whole process that resulted in this and not another solution. It is important to understand and argue your own decisions - to be aware of it.
Anna: Which studio taught you this?
Peter: A fellowship in Tennessee and studying under Gregory Weld - this was the person who completely changed my way of thinking. He demanded a lot - it was a hard time in college, but also extremely fruitful.
Anna: Was it difficult for you to abandon Polish standards of thinking?
Piotr: Yes, it took me some time.
Tokyo's landscape of electric cables in Shinagawa and Yoyogi
Golden Gaia night landscape in Kabukicho
Photo: © Piotr Pasierbiński
Anna: What does it look like in your current office? Fujimoto's designs are a discussion of form with emptiness, a kind of play between space and form - a very innovative approach to many issues, hence his numerous awards and notability in the architectural community. It must be - therefore - a special studio?
Piotr: Yes, it is indeed unique - it is completely uninterested in standard approaches and ideas, they are rejected from above. We don't have typical customers either, of course. Fujimoto is looking for something provocative, innovative.
Anna: Don't you get the impression that sometimes it's a search for provocation by force? Are his architectural answers, despite everything, pragmatic and functional?
Peter: I think Fujimoto's office today is something different from Fujimoto's office ten years ago. Before, there was a lot more spatial exploration, related to the relationship between inside and outside, between the city and nature, today there is a little more emphasis on form.
Anna: What are your plans for the future? Do you want to stay in Japan?
Piotr: I would like to return to Europe. However, working at such high speed is very tiring. I don't speak Japanese, it doesn't allow me to experience the city and life here the way I would like to, and it causes development here to have its limits.
Anna: Of course, one has a completely different understanding of a place when one speaks the language in which a place speaks. And taking a pragmatic approach to the question - are you satisfied with your salary, housing conditions?
Peter: In Tokyo, apartments are tiny and very expensive. I live in a room that is eight square meters in a shared apartment with six other tenants, mostly foreigners. Earnings here allow one to support oneself and visit, but they are far too low, which is related to the fact that overtime is, as I mentioned, unpaid.
The ubiquitous vending machines brightening up Japan
Photo: © Piotr Pasierbiński
Anna: At the moment, in the architectural community - finally - there is a discussion about low wages, about paying and contributing to the authorship of projects to interns. What is your opinion on this issue? Do studios in the States and Canada offer similar conditions to your current employers?
Peter: No, the difference is very big. In the West, however, overtime is always paid. The understanding of an apprentice is also different - in the States apprenticeships are paid, here until now it was a financially unrewarded job. This is changing somewhat. However, apprentices are not mentioned as co-authors of projects. Now there is a watershed moment here - a lot is changing in terms of attitudes toward apprentices, after the high-profile discussion about Ishigami and his Serpentine pavilion in London. This resonates all the time, influencing attitudes. Japanese offices are also increasingly opening up to the global market and looking for clients abroad, and are beginning to understand that not only the quality of architecture, but also the good name of the studio matters. I think this is what is driving the main change.
Anna: It's very important what you say. I have a more personal question: after these less than two years in Japan, have you managed to form any closer friendships, to make friends in the community, or are they purely professional contacts, though?
Peter: I wouldn't say that I have new friends, but colleagues and close acquaintances - yes. Although I don't like to generalize, I have to admit that making friends with Asians takes more time and patience than in the West, there is more reserve, closure and secretiveness at the beginning - it takes more time to get to know each other and open up to each other.
Anna: Finally - what can one wish for you? How do you envision your professional path for the next, say, five years?
Piotr: First of all - I would like to work with people who would constantly inspire me, from whom I would learn. This is the most important thing for me. And rather in Europe, but I can't say where exactly yet.
Anna: That's what I wish for you. Thank you very much for the interview!
Piotr: Thank you.
interviewed: Anna Popiel-Moszynska
Photo: © Piotr Pasierbiński
