Edyta: So what tools are we missing in the current land management system to make designing for natural succession possible?
Kasper: Before new tools are developed, we should think about putting fourth nature areas under any form of protection. In Krakow, for example, some such areas have been given the status of ecological uses. In the UK, such a role is played by local nature reserves or sites of special scientific interest (sites of specialscientific interest) - this category includes areas of evolving nature. They do not have to have special natural values, the most interesting element of them is precisely the variability and development over time. In our country, such areas are perceived as scrubland, an investment reserve, a worthless area full of self-sown trees. I believe that there is a great need to expand the scope of protection of existing greenery in the case of new developments taking into account not only the tree trunks or root balls, but its entire habitat, that is, what is happening directly around the tree. In addition, landscaping itself cannot be a process of destruction, as Wojciech Januszczyk of the Landscapes Foundation often says, and as I can observe on a daily basis in park revitalization processes. These very often involve cutting down or destroying the entire lower vegetation cover of the park in order to plant new vegetation. This approach destroys and depletes the topsoil, and it is crucial for the further development of nature. We also underestimate self-sown plants, which are very often the species that are best adapted to the local microclimate. Nowadays, the term "volunteer tree," especially in dendrological inventories for new developments, means a cutting sentence. We therefore need to completely change the approach to the valorization of existing greenery, which should also be reflected in local development plans.
Overgrown curbs and greenery in slab gaps are also part of the fourth nature
Photo: Edyta Skiba
Edyta: So how should the urban planning system evolve to better protect greenery?
Kasper: First of all, it must begin to include a planning system for so-called green infrastructure. Professor Urszula Forczek-Brataniec says that you can't look at greenery in a city only through the prism of a particular building, plot or neighborhood. The urban ecosystem is a set of interconnected vessels, and as architects and landscape architects, we must always look at the broader context of connections. We need to protect the migration routes of animals, the connections between neighboring areas, map this and secure it. This is absolutely crucial, if we succeeded in including new areas in the protected landscape elements, then we could have a network of green spaces, not islands. If we can secure such a network of connections, we will simultaneously create a network of recreational connections for city residents. In Poland, unfortunately, we are still thinking in this regard in terms of points, not systems.
Edyta: What about architecture?
Kasper: It must be a habitat element, that is, it should create not only residential niches for people, but also ecological niches. Greenery can't just be a decoration for the building, it can't just be confined to the immediate surroundings of the development; rather, the building must be an element of greenery. I don't just mean to provide green roofs, to fill the ratio of biologically active area, but also to sink the architecture into the greenery, which will benefit people psychologically, environmentally, energetically.
View of the Zelené Město estate in Prague - metamorphosis of allotment gardens into a forest - Třešňovka Orchard
Photo: Edyta Skiba
Edyta: Just how do you convince a developer scrupulously calculating costs and profits to this idea?
Kasper: A great deal depends on what kind of investor we are dealing with. The consciousness of many of them is changing, and I have the impression that this is a professional group that feels and sees that there is something wrong with the greenery. Very often they get landscape projects that cost a lot to complete, if only because of the proper preparation of the ground for the plants. It also turns out that the cost of maintaining greenery is dramatically high, and after a few years - if it is not cared for - it looks bad or withers away. In this respect, the offer of fourth nature or pocket forests looks very interesting for them. The idea, of course, is not to weed the entire area now or to allow completely spontaneous reforestation with self-sown trees. The idea is to combine elements from the world of manicured landscape and wildlife in an aesthetically pleasing way. I don't know if it's not a bigger challenge to convince architects and landscape architects that this approach in design is very important and needed.
Edyta: Could the creation of pocket forests be the answer to this need?
Kasper: Yes, especially the first three, which were created in cooperation with the UWI company in Poznań - this example shows that where you can convince a developer to take good, thoughtful action that is not greenwashing at the same time, the effect can be amazing. They were planted in a wasteland between housing estates on Milczańska Street in Poznań. The initiative generated incredible energy, activating residents who eagerly joined in planting a forest opposite their windows. It's amazing that the developer also managed to build social capital around this action, which turned a littered patch of land into a friendly space for people and nature. It is also important that this was not a multi-million dollar investment in greenery that is difficult to maintain. In addition to the forest, a small orchard was created in the area and meadows were sown. The entire area had to be prepared by eliminating invasive goldenrod, so as to make room for more native vegetation species in the future. This action shows that biodiversity can be an asset to any development. We need to change the way we think about greenery in the city and its design today. We shouldn't be afraid to experiment or make mistakes, because these are the solutions we will need in the future, so it's good to prototype them beforehand.
A view of the Zelené Město estate in Prague - landscape architecture of the future
Photo: Edyta Skiba
Edyta: Prototyping or experimenting with nature sounds quite risky. How do you conduct such activities wisely?
Kasper: As professionals, we should not be afraid and implement modern design solutions, but at the same time educate about their legitimacy. I was very impressed by the installation "Glebarium", created by the Centrala Group for the exhibition "Anthropocene". It used all those elements that undergo processes of decay and decomposition: leaves, grass remnants, branches, which have the potential to build a valuable substrate for plants, and which we treat like any other kind of waste. Processes usually considered unpleasant have been highlighted, emphasizing and explaining their importance. Building soil is an important, if not the most important, part of the process of creating pocket forests. I believe that in any development we are able to set aside 10 percent of the land area that would be a biocenotic zone or pocket forest. In practice, this means that, for example, instead of taking fallen tree trunks somewhere far outside the city, we can scatter them in such a forest for free decomposition that feeds the soil; leaves collected from the roads or sidewalks of a given development can be dumped into the pocket forest to build soil. Such action also demonstrates the importance of its role in nature - studies show that an increase of just 1 percent of humus per hectare is enough to retain an additional 90 to 150 tons of water. To be eco, it's not enough to plant a tree, you also need to provide it with the right habitat, including humus-rich soil. I think an excellent tool for this is the creation of pocket forests, where at the very beginning, together with the residents, we prepare the soil, build humus, spread leaves, mulch, compost, and not just plant trees, this has a huge educational role.
An installation on ruderalism and succession in the city at the "Anthropocene" exhibition at the Zodiac Pavilion (2022)
Photo: Edyta Skiba
Edyta: Isn't transferring the method developed by Japanese botanist Akira Miyawaki to Poland the key to learning to accept the aesthetics of fourth nature?
Kasper: I would like to stipulate here that pocket forests are not a new solution that will eliminate all the city's ecological problems. They are not a substitute for protecting large partially undeveloped green areas, often in the suburbs, wetlands, old trees and taking care of these most naturally valuable zones in the city. Pocket forests can be a great tool for thinking in a different, new way about urban or neighborhood greenery. They can be helpful in transforming treeless green spaces in the city. In these fields I see them being very effective. It is also very important that they are created with the involvement of residents. Their energy and time allow them to build soil, so they can be created in even highly transformed and human-damaged areas. We also analyze the species composition of the forest for the location. Most often, however, we plant species that are characteristic of a particular forest habitat type, very often in cities these are oak-hornbeam environments. Sometimes I allow myself small experiments in which we plant poplars, for example. In addition to this, we deal not only with trees, but also with species of the lower levels of the forest and the vegetation of the forest undergrowth. Some people are afraid that we will reforest all possible vacant spaces, but this method is not at all about that. For me, the pocket forest is a "laboratory" of urban nature, where we can observe succession and change. Sometimes very rare species, previously unknown in the city, will appear in these spaces. In sum, pocket forests are about planting wildness, we initiate natural processes and give these wild groves back to nature. It needs space in the city as much as we do.
Edyta: Is there a place for "dirt" in the modern city and its landscape?
Kasper: Not everything today has to fit into the category of classical beauty, the aesthetics of imperfection can be a shocking element, but at the same time attractive in its own way. Ruderal vegetation fits it perfectly. In the summer, during the flowering season, it can be a very attractive decoration, which in the winter turns into frosted brambles that provide shelter for insects, for example. Then there is no need to succumb to the instinct of autumn cleanup, according to which by burning seemingly superfluous elements we can get closer to the rigors of Versailles aesthetics.
Ruderal vegetation on uninvested plots is removed, and can be successfully used in new greenery
Photo: Edyta Skiba
Edyta: Accepting the transformation of processes and imperfections in nature teaches us to accept our own imperfections, allowing us to feel at ease and improving our mental condition.
Kasper: Modern scientists confirm the theory that in such aesthetics of "dirt", in the thicket, in "monkey groves", wooded greenery, we develop and regenerate better. It is also a great place for children to develop. If we want them to acquire soft skills, such as flexibility or creativity, we must even encourage them to climb trees, get dirty in the mud, explore the spaces of nature untamed by the hand of man. Adults, on the other hand, do not need to confirm their social or material status in such places, they can fully enjoy the egalitarian space of being in nature.
Edyta: Thank you for the interview!
