We have been able to define the phenomenon for a long time, but have we begun to deal with it? Concretosis keeps coming back into the discussion, even though it is facing less and less public acceptance. We talk about where we stand in the fight against concretosis with Jan Mencwel, urban activist and author of the book Concretosis.
Wiktor Bochenek: More than two years have passed since the publication of the book "Concreteosis". During this period have you observed social changes?
Jan Mencwel: The most important change was the entry of the term concretosis into colloquial language, it became a bogeyman for local government officials. Now it is so common to refer to some public space as concretosis that indeed a pale fear has fallen on many mayors and presidents.
This could be seen in the context of the discussion of Five Corners Square in Warsaw. I wouldn't call it concretosis myself, and that's not what my book is about. More often in it I addressed the issue of cutting down trees. Now even a space where there were no trees before, but were planted in a controversial way, is defined by this term.
What a career the word concretosis has made, shows that the appetite for real greenery among city dwellers has increased.
Wiktor: You touched on the wave of criticism that fell on Warsaw's Five Corners Square. Was it justified?
Jan: I am not in a position to judge whether it was right or not. First of all, the discussion that went beyond the professional community of architects and urban planners should be welcomed. In general, people paid little attention to public space around cities. Much has changed in this regard.
In the case of Five Corners Square, all voices should be taken into account. I don't quite agree with those who consider this project a total waste of money. This square didn't exist before, there was an intersection that was shut down. Many elements have appeared on it, making it possible to come and stop there. I would rate this as a change for the better, but the most gratifying thing is the lively discussion.
Five Corners Square in Warsaw (proj. WXCA)
Photo by R. Motyl, source UM Warszawa
Wiktor: So we can see a change in the perception of the betoniasis problem in society, but is it visible at the local government level?
Jan: This is the most difficult to assess. My experience shows that the process from changing public perception to changing the way decisions are made is very slow. Polish politicians and local government officials are in poor touch with reality. They more often pay attention to political bickering than to what changes residents want. Often, too, this misunderstanding leads them to take offense at criticism. This ego of Polish local government officials is a major problem and barrier.
A change in thinking today can in many cases be linked to electoral defeat. If a president loses an election because of concreting a city, perhaps this will change the thinking of local government officials. Either cities will be green, or they won't govern them.
Wiktor: Does the issue of concretization and urban greening already have the power to translate realistically into election results?
Jan: Yes, I think it can and will happen eventually. For the time being, it won't be in the largest cities, also because there is a lot of greenery in large Polish cities, there are parks designed back in the People's Republic of Poland and earlier (because new parks are not created today).
In a small city, where the green market was often the only space that responded to the needs of urban nature, this may affect the election results. In smaller centers, such a decision is noticeable.
Victor: It is worth remembering, however, that the problem of many small cities is the lack of a suitable venue for mass events. Is it possible to combine these functions of organizing social and cultural life with greenery?
Jan: Of course it is possible. We don't need to cut down trees if we need a representative space - the swearing-in of the President of the United States is taking place on the National Mall, which is a huge park. If it's possible to hold such an event in a park, any other event will do as well. Similarly with concerts, which are increasingly held in parks, for example, Fest Festival is held in a park in Chorzow. Greenery does not stand in the way of holding any event.
National Mall in Washington, DC
Photo by Matti Blume, © Wikimedia Commons CC BY-SA 4.0
Victor: But let's move on to another issue, we have raised the issue of local government officials, but what about the government? Has the government noticed the problem? It has promised several times that it will fight concretosis?
Jan: No results can be seen. Prime Minister Morawiecki has used the term concretosis several times, but it has had no effect on anything but sham actions. It's easy to blame local governments in this case. The problem is still the legal order we live in, which facilitates and encourages such senseless concrete realizations.
Wiktor: If you had to name a realization in Poland that should be considered exemplary, would you manage to find one?
Jan: As far as public spaces are concerned, I am not able to point to such a realization. However, an interesting solution is a space created by a private entity in partnership with an NGO. It's an area in the courtyard of the Pearl brewery in Lublin, which was a post-industrial, unfriendly space and was transformed into an urban garden, combining diverse functions. It was created in cooperation with the Landscapes Foundation. This is certainly worth showing, especially looking at the multifunctionality of the place, concerts and meetings can be held there.
Chopin on the Grass concert during the InGarden festivities organized by the Landscapes Foundation
Photo: T.Kulbowski
Wiktor: Is "Betonosis" still relevant after two years? In the course of this conversation it came to me that nothing has changed, however. Is there a chance that it will eventually become obsolete?
Jan: I remember a few years ago there was a wave of interest in the problem of the omnipresence of advertising in public space, thanks in part to Filip Springer 's book "Bathtub with a Colonnade". At the time, it seemed that the discussion on the subject did not go beyond the circle of interested parties, but still: today we have legal tools to solve the problem of advertosis.
With concretosis, we are at the stage of appearing to discuss the problem. However, we do not have the legal tools to better protect urban trees. This issue, however, is still relevant. Just because a term has made a career does not mean that something is changing.
I would like to see more appreciation of the landscape architecture profession in Poland. If landscape architects had more work to do in public spaces, it would be better for us. We have a lot of work for architects, but not much for landscape architects.
Victor: Thank you for the interview!
Jan Mencwel
Photo by Albert Zawada
