The interview with Jan Strumillo appeared
in A&B 12'2020
About designing in a team and in the age of coronavirus. About economics and ecology. About the Polish urban landscape compared to a luxury car speeding along a cheese-hole road. Architect Jan Strumillo talks about beautiful interiors and beautiful, but also difficult, moments in a designer's work.
Dominika Drozdowska: I wanted to start the interview with you in a rather classic way - by asking about the projects completed by Jan Strumillo. Reading about them, however, I noticed that many activities are carried out in teams. And so one learns that in the project on Koszykowa we "completely redesigned" and on Piękna we "thoroughly rebuilt". Can you say more about this "we" in the Jan Strumillo brand?
Jan Strumillo: It may seem like "we" is some kind of majestic plural, but it's just that I haven't been working alone for a long time anymore. At some point I decided to develop a brand based on my own name, but that doesn't mean I do everything myself. The people I work with are fully involved in the projects I do. So this is a natural form resulting from the desire to honor my collaborators.
Dominika:Visiting your website, one gets the impression that you are a small but close-knit team. Are there any drawbacks to working in such a minimalist design unit?
Jan: These disadvantages are obvious to anyone trying to find a niche for themselves in a market whose shape is not conducive to medium-sized businesses. Because it turns out that it's good to operate completely alone or in a duo or in a large team of a dozen people. In the former option you can prosper really quite well for a long time, in the latter there are economies of scale. Our intermediate solution is quite difficult.
Dominika:Although in the current situation it may seem that such a model is more affordable.
Jan: Certainly, a smaller operation, without the burden of a multitude of people, means easier adjustment to a difficult situation. However, I am striving to keep expanding the business. Admittedly, this growth is slow, but it is progressing. There are more and more people in our team, and we are taking on more and more topics. Happily, at least for the time being, the current realities have not translated into a deterioration of our studio. Of course, we have to maintain a sanitary regime, but other than that we are moving forward.
Interior of an apartment on Koszykowa Street in Warsaw, design: Jan Strumillo, cooperation: Julia Jankowska
photo: Jakub Certowicz
Dominika:It's hard to escape questions about the coronavirus. Have you noticed the impact of COVID-19 on your clients and their needs? Has it also influenced you as a designer?
Jan: Covid is dramatically affecting my clients. We have worked on at least two restaurant projects since the beginning of the pandemic. As you know, the current time is not the best time to start a restaurant business. So we are trying to support the clients as best we can and hope that when the situation returns to normal, it will be possible for these ventures to fully flourish. In design life, the coronavirus has interesting practical implications. For example, in one of these dining establishments we used a lot of copper finishes, which has antibacterial and bactericidal properties. We also used a foot-operated sink faucet.
Dominika:Do you think the design changes you're talking about will continue?
Jan: I really don't know what's going to happen next, and every day I'm surprised by the turn of events. However, I am gaining a deeper and deeper conviction that these changes in our lives will be more permanent than temporary. Figuratively speaking, investing in better masks, for example, is not a bad idea, because they will probably stay with us for longer. Once the coronavirus has passed, we may be in for another virus. I don't think there will be any more return to the normality we remember from as recently as last year, but I find it hard to predict what this will develop into in architecture. My guess is that the real challenge for designers is to develop the huge office space for other purposes. Offices as they existed before covid will probably have to become a thing of the past.
Dominika:Yes, covid seems to be the first wave, which will be followed by others. More crises lurk on the horizon, including climate change and depleting resources.
Jan: Well, one can be paralyzed by this fear, and one can get over it and hope that in some form business can go on. However stressed I am by the increasing amount of plastic trash in the sea, I'm not going to drop everything and go rake the beach. Maybe it would even be pleasant in the short run, but still, one has to go on somehow. I do what I know how to do, and I try to do it as well as I can. I also try to shape my consumer and design choices in such a way that I have a clear conscience. To use materials and products that I am convinced do not worsen the fate of people, animals and the planet. At the same time, I try not to be overcome by fears and just keep going.
Interior of an apartment on Koszykowa Street in Warsaw, design: Jan Strumillo, cooperation: Julia Jankowska
photo: Jakub Certowicz
Dominika:Can you give an example of solutions or materials you use that do not worsen the fate of our planet?
Jan: It seems to me that this is a difficult and risky topic. We try to limit the use of plastics and surround our customers with natural materials. We use natural stone slabs instead of composites, plywood instead of laminates, oil instead of varnish. We insert natural materials everywhere we can. Of course, this is opening up a gigantic field of discussion, whether, for example, natural wood flooring does not contribute to deforestation, or whether it is better to use resin or plastic carpeting. It's hard to tell, because in an ocean of data each version can find its defender, especially when big money is involved. So we suggest, as much as we can, materials backed by scientific research on well-being. There is some deep aversion in me to anything artificial. I try to think about what will happen to our creations once they have reached the end of their life and are no longer useful to our customers. If they end up in the trash, will they be able to return to natural circulation.
Dominika:Choosing decent materials involves a lot of money. In your opinion, is it possible to design functionally, nicely and ecologically when the budget is rather modest?
Jan: This is a great question about human needs, and it actually hooks into sociology. About what is culturally acceptable to us, what people like and what they feel good in. One can imagine, for example, such a situation where we live in an apartment where we don't finish the walls with plaster - we live among bare bricks. For many people this would be unacceptable. This is not a vision of life they are prepared for. Which is not to say that such habitation is not possible. I'm curious about designing in such a way that the interiors or architecture appear unfinished, as if they were still under construction. After all, it is possible to intentionally leave open space where it is easy to add or change something. This may be a response to the modern challenges of consumption. So, going back to your question, in order to combine all these requirements, it is necessary to find a new meaning of what is beautiful. I think from a technical point of view there is no problem to create ecological architecture for people when the budget is modest. The only question is whether these people will be able to accept its appearance. It's a bit of an abstract issue, because on a daily basis we provide designs for beautiful, luxurious interiors, and this involves the realization of rather conventional artistic visions. Charging architecture with a mission to save the world very often goes to the detriment of its fruits, and I couldn't honestly convince anyone that this is what our business is all about.
Interior of an apartment on Koszykowa Street in Warsaw, design: Jan Strumillo, cooperation: Julia Jankowska
photo: Jakub Certowicz
Dominika:Coming back to the budget again and tying it to the Polish landscape - I wonder what can make us live and live more beautifully inside and out.
Jan: This is an evolutionary process that plays out over a large time scale. A good model of this process is cars in Poland after '89. When the borders were opened, the country was flooded with used cars. And people drove these decrepit Volkswagens or Mercedes on crumbling roads, but they preferred them to Maluchs, Polonezes or Moskvichs. Over time, when they started buying better cars, they noticed that it would be good to improve the condition of the roads as well. And now, thirty years later, many people not only drive luxury cars, but they also have them where to go, and in some even the thought is germinating that such cars could be produced here. In short, this change has been from the personal to the common. It seems to me that much slower, but following a similar scenario, is the change in how Poles live. At first, inspired by TV series, they shape their surroundings with Scandinavian furniture, but at some point they realize that something else can be done. And maybe at last a sufficiently large group of people will conclude that we need fundamental urban changes, and for such changes there will be acceptance. Unfortunately, for the time being, I don't see that we are very far advanced in this process. When I travel around Poland and look at new neighborhoods in the suburbs, it's really hard not to weep. This is a kind of torture. There is no sense, no beauty, no logic. The criticism of this spatial development affecting Poland is already solidly developed, but so far it hasn't translated into any breakthroughs.
Dominika:So what stage are we at now, moscow?
Jan: No, we are way past it. In my opinion, we are at the stage of driving a used limousine on a crumbling road.
Dominika:With the replacement of this urban infrastructure, it will probably be much more difficult.
Jan: I think it's just a matter of attitude. The 20th century witnessed very thorough transformations that happened and are still happening before our eyes. During my lifetime, I have observed the phenomenon of the spread of cell phones - from zero to billions of handsets. This shows that changing people's lives through technology is possible, if it involves a real need. Some time ago, architects from the JEMS studio gave an interview in which they warned of the imminent technical death of large-panel housing estates. The way these buildings were erected will soon result in mass failures and evictions. You can look at this as a threat, but it's also a great time to discuss the shape of Polish cities. Assuming, of course, that the state functions normally and that there are adequate resources for this.
Interior of Empik bookstore in Krakow, design: Jan Strumillo, cooperation: Julia Jankowska
photo: Leszek Ogrodnik © Empik
Dominika:Let's move from urban spaces to interiors. What elements make the visual effect as elegant and consistent as in your design for the apartment on Koszykowa Street in Warsaw?
Jan: In this case we were very lucky. Our client not only knew what she wanted, but was also well prepared for the investment process. She had reserved an appropriate budget, including time. The project was created well in advance, it was well worked out, and the various unforeseen situations that happen on the construction site did not prevent it from reaching a happy conclusion. So words of praise are due to our investor, who placed great trust in us. How often we collide with the opposite phenomenon, when the client at some stage becomes convinced that he can already make disputed decisions himself. To each of our investors, we strive to deliver the best possible design product we are able to create. And while we give it our best every time, not all of our clients treat the product equally. At Koszykova we were given an initial interesting order and full freedom. I think it's very lucky to come across the right people who are ready to use our work in the right way.
Dominika:If trust on the investor-architect line doesn't always work as well as it did when designing the interior on Koszykowa Street, how do you try to convince the client of your ideas?
Jan: Of course, every designer has his own methods and has to develop his own strategy for working with the investor. I think it is good to leave a certain margin of abstraction in the way we communicate the architectural concept. We fine-tune this margin at a later stage, for example, by selecting finishing materials on samples. It is important to let the client understand the spatial relationships at the beginning and stop there. This allows us not only to have a rational dialogue, but also to draw the investor into the design adventure in a controlled way. I think this is a better way than producing accurate photographic visualizations at the concept stage. A render-identical effect is difficult to achieve, which creates tension and disappointment for both us and the client. On the other hand, as for the relationship between architect and developer, we are constantly reminded that it often means getting to know someone's life in an embarrassingly intense way. Suddenly, being in a master-mistress relationship with someone, you find out private details of your clients' lives. More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that our work wanders somewhere on the border of psychology. You have to empathize with other people's lives, without judging their needs or their approach to consumption, for example. Simply put, the way I spend money must not prevent me from understanding how my client spends money. All of this requires a serious dose of empathy.
Interior of Empik bookstore in Krakow, on the vault a mural by Tymek Jezierski, design: Jan Strumillo, cooperation: Julia Jankowska
photo: Leszek Ogrodnik © Empik
Dominika:So you have to step out of your shoes and into the shoes of your customer.
Jan: I think it does. It's a truism that the architectural profession is a servant profession, but understanding exactly what that means comes with time. Our main goal is to make our client happy. My satisfaction as a designer can only be a side element. This translates into the daily adventure of getting to know the people we work with, which is exciting in its own way.
Dominika:Speaking of clients - you design for individuals, cultural institutions or companies such as Empik. Which collaborations bring you the most joy?
Jan: Behind every subject is ultimately a person, whether an employee of an institution or an individual. Someone who is interested in working with us has seen our portfolio, so what we do resonates with that person's sensibilities enough that they reach out to us. So these are the people with whom we most often catch a good rapport. I think the big challenge is communicating that we are doing something completely different every time. It's natural that people want something they've already seen, but our job is to come up with unique, customized solutions. So it's not always easy to draw our customer into this adventure. So far, however, we are managing it. It seems to me that the most beautiful part of this job is meeting wonderful and interesting people. People who aren't afraid of risk, are problem-solvers and take matters into their own hands - whether as employees of institutions or as private clients. We also interact with contractors all the time, and these are also interesting, brave people who are constantly navigating the unknown and have to take risks.
Dominika:You talk about beautiful experiences, and what are the most difficult ones in the work of an interior designer?
Jan: Well... [a moment of thoughtfulness] I wonder what to answer, so as not to repeat the usual repertoire of challenges that apply to everyone, like work-life balance. After all, these are not specific architectural problems, but problems for all working people.
Interior of Empik bookstore in Krakow, design: Jan Strumillo, cooperation: Julia Jankowska
photo: Leszek Ogrodnik © Empik
Dominica:Design compromises?
Jan: No, I think it's more a matter of attitude towards these compromises. If we are open to change and problem-solving from the beginning and understand that compromise is simply the content of the job, then we won't face some kind of struggle or harsh disappointment. This is certainly the case for me, because I just like to change things. I like challenges. Rather, it seems to me that it is difficult, first of all, to maintain the same level of emotional commitment throughout the whole, long duration of the project. It's very demanding to maintain the same level of passion and focus even at the late supervision stage. It's also important and difficult to have the right "emotional hygiene" when dealing with clients and contractors. Many times, for the sake of building trust, there is a natural tendency to move to a friendly level. However, remaining in official relations, polite and distanced, makes it easier to work and navigate through high emotions. This was the case, for example, in the Koszykova project.
Dominika:Coming back to this project - its interior is composed of details. It seems that you are not a designer who follows trends, yet the visual effect is very fashionable. Can such an interior stand the test of time?
Jan: I'm not sure that the role of interiors is to aspire to so much timelessness. Let's not kid ourselves, these interiors undergo renovations from time to time. Several of our projects that we present on the website have been altered or no longer exist. An interior is not a parliament building designed for hundreds of years. And as for whether we came out fashionable - well, the interior consists of products that can be bought at any given time. We can't design everything, so we choose products from the current market offer. This is also quite an interesting point, because a designer who wants to create something original today has to think about where he gets his inspiration from, and insulate himself, as it were, from the aesthetic stimuli that are so easily available. As we feed on these stimuli, we often forget that thousands of other people are being fed the same. I try to consciously analyze what I like. I avoid popular inspiration sites, because later these images can't be pushed out of my head and somehow translate into my design decisions. I'm certainly not free from this, because as we talked about at the beginning, I don't design completely on my own. However, it seems to me that it's worth imposing such limitations on ourselves, because that way our designs speak their own language and are at least a little independent of what's going on in the world.
Dominica:A bit of originality.
Jan: Yes, originality is something that needs to be built, cultivated and nourished.
Dominika:Finally, a question related to your studio, which has been operating for ten years. What has changed during this decade and what are your plans for the coming years?
Jan: I think I'm very lucky that I can operate under my own name, that we exist in the market, that the phone is still ringing. The last ten years have been exciting, and I hope this will continue. It's a beautiful adventure that we try not to lose out on. I think that's a good summary.
